Comments on OBESITY PANACEA: Exercise won't make you thin, or so concludes misg...

@ bcoppola Thanks for your comments and for sprea...

2009-08-28T14:12:41.509-04:00

@ bcoppola

Thanks for your comments and for spreading the news.

You may be interested in reading a prior post I had on the notion of physical activity affecting health and body composition despite no change in scale weight. Click this link to read more: http://www.obesitypanacea.com/2009/01/physical-activity-in-treatment-of.html

I too read the Time article with some bemusement; ...

2009-08-28T13:22:38.587-04:00

I too read the Time article with some bemusement; but as a layperson I gave it the benefit of the doubt as it seemed somewhat plausible. But still the BS radar kept twinging.

My favorite CV exercise is bicycling and I do indeed feel hungrier sometimes after a hard ride. OTOH, sometimes I have simply "rewarded" myself, hungry or not, with a high calorie indulgence (ice cream is my weakness).

Still, it has taken very little willpower to simply reduce the frequency of those "rewards" and my midsection fat has diminished. And post ride hunger is mitigated or eliminated by making sure I'm well fueled before.

As noted, my scale weight has changed little (~5 lbs or so) but my trousers fit much better. So where's the weight coming from? Probably increased muscle. Good tradeoff IMO.

Also, I take in stride speeds and distances that would have been unthinkable a few years ago. And I'm in my mid 50s.

Now I need to get better at keeping up my weight/core exercises.

Found my way here via a link on Science Blogs. I'll share this article with my bike club.

Peter, I'm convinced you're right, but be...

2009-08-19T15:53:04.072-04:00

Peter,

I'm convinced you're right, but besides the obvious research which is clear on this point, there is a practical point to it.

I've overseen nationwide multicenter programs in the Netherlands with thousands of people and have personal experience in helping hundreds of people loosing weight en staying slim in and out of fitness centers. Besides having a MsC in nutrition, health sciences and psychology, I spent 2 hours a day reading up research (on health, not just weightloss) and 20 hours a week clinic duty, besides teaching healthsciences.

I'm a pragmatic person on par with science. But if we want to help people, we need to understand for example the Hawthorn effect and that means that people being observed will respond differently (like in a controlled experiment). I combined the scientific knowledge with my clinical experience, which is not a controlled experiment but more like a thousandfold casereport.

If you focus on exercise as a health benefit and nutrition as a way to loose weight. Things get much simpler. As soon as you start telling people that they ate the candybar and it doesn't matter, but they have to walk 30 minutes longer. Things start getting confusing.

Also very discouraging is the fact that some people are in the gym 4 times a week and don't loose weight. Of course they eat to much, but there is no real world reference for the energy balance. They understand the rationale, but will reject it emotionally.

So, having said this. You're right, but to be honest it's a academic discussion. If you want to help people, physiology is not enough. Knowing how people perceive thing, how they learn and how they embed behavior is in my opinion at least as interesting as a part of the equation. Wouldn't you agree?

@ Jan - What you describe is really a re-hashing o...

2009-08-19T13:35:05.823-04:00

@ Jan - What you describe is really a re-hashing of Cloud's thesis.

"exercise is a part of the equation, but (in practical sense) not part of the negative energybalance theory"

Not sure what meaning was intended with that statement, but to suggest that if someone jogs for 60 minutes on most days and expends 500kcal each time, that this would somehow not create or contribute to a negative energy balance is simply incorrect.

Yes, nutrition needs to be part of the picture, and this is where I think Cloud fails miserably. As I explained you can not perform a low dose of activity and reward yourself with double the caloric value as that expended during the activity, and expend to lose weight.

BUT - if you maintained your current diet (no decrease or for that matter increase in caloric intake) and exercised at an appropriate volume (60-90 mins most days) you would absolutely lose weight - to suggest otherwise would violate the basics of energy conservation.

Peter

Exercise will help you loose wait in theory or in ...

2009-08-19T12:12:30.608-04:00

Exercise will help you loose wait in theory or in really controlled situations. This however has nothing to do with the real world, where things are theoretical nor controlled.

In the real world:
A healthy body can loose weight the most efficient and practical by reducing calorie intake. Excercise is will get you healthy, therefor exercise is a part of the equation, but (in practical sense) not part of the negative energybalance theory.

How is that for a compromise.
Jan

A journalist writes a misleading article, misrepre...

2009-08-19T05:22:24.372-04:00

A journalist writes a misleading article, misrepresenting scientific knowledge. Dangerous.

Scientists write letters correcting the article. Problem solved. I don't think so.

Time should be pressured to publish a rebuttal by someone skilled both in science, and just as importantly, rhetoric.

Magazines just love being able to provide "balanced" coverage - in which science is mangled in a way that similar abuse of reporting in a legal trial, for example, would seriously discredit the publication.

It's time to fight back and put science reporting on the same level as political and legal reporting - out of the realms of opinion-based, "life-style" reporting.

Thanks for posting this one. I think a great probl...

2009-08-19T04:24:25.112-04:00

Thanks for posting this one. I think a great problem with many people is that they think: I exercised, this means I can eat what I want (without feeling guilty). Physical activity should be separated from eating "disorders".

Richard, I have sneaking suspicion I know exactly...

2009-08-18T21:50:54.792-04:00

Richard, I have sneaking suspicion I know exactly who "Matt" is and I can almost certainly guarantee his comment was written with a heavy dose of sarcasm.

Thanks Matt - I had a good laugh!:) "Common sense supercedes evidence" - I may use that line in the future.

Peter

when there is adherence to a sufficient dose of...

2009-08-18T16:38:15.107-04:00
when there is adherence to a sufficient dose of physical activity in overweight and obese adults

I think this is the key statement. Mr. Cloud's point is that "sufficient dose" can only be defined in relation to a host of other factors like consumption. If you run for a couple hours and then have an ice cream sunday, you might not have exercised with a "sufficient dose."

I personally have not experienced the hunger outcomes from exercise. I do usually feel thirsty, however, and I have noted in myself that I sometimes confuse thirst cravings and sugar cravings. My guess is that this water/sugar mix up happens in some people while others are already looking for an excuse to eat a sugary dessert before they even go to the gym.

My god I hope that was sarcasm.

2009-08-18T03:32:41.018-04:00
My god I hope that was sarcasm.

I don't need to look at the evidence to show m...

2009-08-17T23:20:50.450-04:00
I don't need to look at the evidence to show me the TIME article is accurate. I mean, when I work out regularly I feel hungrier. When I am hungrier I eat more. Therefore exercise makes me fat. Pretty obvious to me. I also enjoy the author's previous health related articles, such as "The Smoking Diet - Ditch the snacks and take a drag!" where he explains the weight loss effects of smoking, and my favorite, "Watching Scary Movies - more effective than running" as he shows us the elevation in heart rate during the scary scenes is similar to when he runs, therefore the same. Why waste time looking through studies when this guy lays it out there for you. Sorry Peter, I disagree with you on this one. Yet another example where common sense supercedes evidence!